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  1. #11
    Enthusiast Osprey's Avatar

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    Re: The American Irony

    America's violence was in the name of freedom and liberty. Don't you see how that justifies it?

  2. #12
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    Re: The American Irony

    As far as I'm concerned, "liberation" has always meant mass killings.

    A lot of the world's murders and massacres were justified as liberation, from America killing the natives, to Hitler murdering the Jewish, and even up to the VERY recent massacre in Norway a few months ago.

    Then again, the Norwegians generally have a penchant for murder, just look at the early 90's black metal scene and Varg Vikernes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lympha
    They have a good point, there's no reason to believe the holocaust. Jews tend to disappear in groups of 6 million all the time and those camps were obviously just work camps that the Germans didn't need anymore when they were losing the war and that's the real reason the blew it up.



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  3. #13
    Japanologist Wilio's Avatar

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    Re: The American Irony

    You're a little off in your date.

    The cold war, which is not actually a war, started before the Vietnam war. You might aswell replace the Cold War with the Korean war if you want to depict the Americans as gruesome murderers.

    By the way , you're speaking about 9/11 then you put Iraq in the equation. Totally different thing. The context of the war in Iraq had little to do with 9/11. Sure, the paranoia of insecurity during that time might have ignited the fact that there may have been weapons of mass destruction, but the idea was not get revenge on those twin towers.

    And arguably, Afghanistan is not in the middle-east. It only started to be because George Bush said so, but traditionally it is not. To be precise, Afghanistan would be considered "Central Asia".

  4. #14
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    Re: The American Irony

    Saul, you have enlightened me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lympha
    They have a good point, there's no reason to believe the holocaust. Jews tend to disappear in groups of 6 million all the time and those camps were obviously just work camps that the Germans didn't need anymore when they were losing the war and that's the real reason the blew it up.



    I live in a shit town full of shit people.

    I'm one the more polite people you'll ever meet!

  5. #15
    Dedicated Member Dante's Avatar

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    Re: The American Irony

    So basically Americans bomb the shit out of middle-eastern civilians for ten years, then wonder why 9/11 happened.
    Yeah.

  6. #16
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    Re: The American Irony

    That's exactly how I see it.

    The Americans have killed more than 3,000 innocents during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. They've also friendly-fired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lympha
    They have a good point, there's no reason to believe the holocaust. Jews tend to disappear in groups of 6 million all the time and those camps were obviously just work camps that the Germans didn't need anymore when they were losing the war and that's the real reason the blew it up.



    I live in a shit town full of shit people.

    I'm one the more polite people you'll ever meet!

  7. #17
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    Re: The American Irony

    So here goes my first post after a 2 year hiatus.


    9/11 was a horrific event, which should never have happened. But that does not give an excuse to go invade two countries, kill innocents, and try Westernize the countries.
    The Liberation Of Iraq Act was signed by Bill Clinton in 1998, making it long term policy for the United States to come about regime change in Iraq. So I think we could say with some certainty that the Iraq war was in fact not intended as a reprisal for the acts on 9/11.

    I've encountered this statement again and again and I'm pretty sure it's simply a misunderstanding that people have.

    But the question is, after that entire sheet of death, why invade the Middle East just because two towers were destroyed by a few men with turbans on their heads?
    Because we did not invade Iraq for that reason. Although I think the war in Afghanistan is a part of the "War on Terror" as they tend to call it, bit of an oxymoron you might think.

    So back to this.
    [quote:26yw0i4b]But the question is, after that entire sheet of death, why invade the Middle East just because two towers were destroyed by a few men with turbans on their heads?
    We invaded them because if we didn't, it would be just like bending over for a beating. 9/11 caused 3,000 deaths. No response to that is incredibly stupid.

    Also, don't be ignorant.[/quote:26yw0i4b]
    No. That's simply wrong. You're treating this as if the United States was a small tribe bent on getting revenge with their honor on the line.
    If I remember correctly the justifications for the Iraq War were the following:
    1. Iraqi forces had been firing missiles on Coalition air-forces who were enforcing the No-Fly-Zone over Iraqi Kurdistan.
    2. The Saddam Hussein regime had broken the genocide convention on numerous occasions in Kurdistan and southern Iraq. They had also suppressed, tortured and killed political dissidents.
    3. Iraq had invaded the sovereign kingdom of Kuwait which was also a member of the European Union.
    4. Saddam Hussein had also broken the Geneva convention by using weapons of mass destruction on Kurdistan, most notably in Halabja, against non-combatants.
    5. The possibility that Saddam Hussein was developing a nuclear program and that he would use weapons of mass destruction, again.

    Now, I do not pretend that corporate interests were not involved but I highly doubt that the US simply invaded for oil, as so many claim (although I bet it was a factor especially with Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP now getting into the Iraqi market).

    In any case your claim that it was a reprisal is simply wrong.
    Also, don't be ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante
    So basically Americans bomb the shit out of middle-eastern civilians for ten years, then wonder why 9/11 happened.
    Yeah.
    Yeah, that's exactly what happened. The Americans decided one day "Damn I hate those Muslims, let's bomb the middle east for 10 years" do you honestly think that this was the case?


    In the end I consider the Iraq war to have been a mistake for the taxpayer, lucky for the Iraqis who have survived and especially lucky for Iraqi Kurdistan which is practically independent. At least they have democracy, freedom of speech and the rest of the values we westerners so adore, some will sneer at this but you can not tell me that this was not a fine end for a bloody war filled with hiccups.

    Please do me and other readers the favor of pointing out any mistaken facts if you can see them and even more fun would be to actually debate my points.
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  8. #18
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    Re: The American Irony

    There is an important lesson here, when comes to things like this, never fully trust media, judging by the your opinions here, that is where you get your information. If all these conspiracy theories were true (i don't really know), do you really think America would admit to that? Look, i know that media lies on a personal level, because of something that happened to my grandmother.
    A while ago there was a story on the news about 4 men who killed a 14 year old, and how the crowd and police just watched, the news made it sound horrible, and how terrible the police and crowd were. Because it happened where my grandma lives, she knew what really happened. That boy was actually a wanted criminal, he shot and killed his brother, and his older brothers saw him as a monster and killed him. Did it say that in the news? NO! The death penalty still exists there so the 14 year old dieing would have happened anyways.
    Point being, news is sometimes bias.

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  9. #19
    Global Champyon Stickid's Avatar



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    Re: The American Irony

    There's no irony, it's all for the New World Order.

  10. #20
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    Re: The American Irony

    America is full of irony. They claim to be the land of the free, but there is no such thing as true freedom. The American dream is just that, a dream. It's not anything it's cracked up to be, such as the land of opportunity. It's having the hardest time in the recession compared to many parts of the world.

    So indeed, America is a very ironic place.


 
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